Time to revise those ingrained grib habits!
IMHO, looks like anyone who has an ingrained habit of draping the non-trigger hand's index finger over the front of the trigger guard of a handgun for extra stability, probably better pay close attention to developing a brand new habit with the Shorty as depicted in Arne's videos... obviously the documentation coming with the new gun should point this out clearly for liability reasons. However, that won't stop me from wanting this little gem. Absolute reliability is paramount and this gun appears to have that, in spades, along with the extra power.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jason on -
I appreciate the advice, and if any instructor can show me anything other than that which I have already seen countless times regurgitated on the internet I'll consider it and give it a try. Fact remains, I have am able to control my XD45 much better when I use the guard, and my muscle memory is, well....second nature. I'm 38 and have been shooting all my life; I know what works for me. Until I get a solid, coherent explanation as to why this is a bad habit, I'll assume I'm doing the right thing, because it's the thing that allows me to put the holes closer to the mark. Peace, and thanks for the observation.
Jeff Fettig said:Arne, when you allow me to place an order, I promise to shoot the hell out of my Boberg and send y'all before-and-after pictures of my fingers:) I appreciate you taking the time to do this right.
During a CCW course several years ago, the lead instructor, also a court-accepted expert for firearm-related cases, showed me that my finger-forward grip was unnecessary. Furthermore, he didn't allow it in the class, regardless of experience. Shooters should consider that there are several variables to proper handgun control and fingering the front of the trigger guard may be a poor substitute for a better solution. I encourage anyone with doubts about giving up the front of the trigger guard to take a class from a certified handgun instructor.
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Permalink Reply by Dante on
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Arne Boberg said:I took some photos of a "wandering index finger" ---SNIP---
Watching this video I noticed that "wandering index finger" the woman had. Looks like her hands are too small to get in front of the barrel though.
http://www.bobergarms.com/video/boberg-xr9s-shorty-recoil
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Permalink Reply by Arne Boberg on -
The videographer wanted to do a re-take because of that. I thought I'd post it anyway to show we aren't using paid pros to shoot the guns; and it also shows that the muzzle is far enough out there to not present a hazard. Even with my large hands I really have to reach hard to get my index finger out there, and it still isn't quite in front of the muzzle.
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Permalink Reply by Jason on
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I mentioned the Boberg in my local gun shop a few days ago before going into the range (it's cold out, lol) and NONE of the guys behind the counter had heard of it. I explained the basic jist and got looks of, well....looks that suggested they thought I was full of crap. Of course I suggested they Google it. MORE EXPOSURE, Arne. Your use of YouTube is good but more can be done, IMHO; the coverage is FREE and easily doable for the individual that wants it to happen. Get that thing into the hands of someone like Nut'nfancy and watch the magic happen. Just my personal observations, here. I want to see that gun reviewed by multiple unaffiliated youtubers! For what it's worth, my wife is going to wait for the release and subsequent market saturation- fed critique of the Boberg before moving up from her P3AT.....she was sold on the Kahr until I showed her this little dandy animation I found, hahaha. Now she's going to wait a while and see what happens. I love that woman, lol. Peace.
Arne Boberg said:The videographer wanted to do a re-take because of that. I thought I'd post it anyway to show we aren't using paid pros to shoot the guns; and it also shows that the muzzle is far enough out there to not present a hazard. Even with my large hands I really have to reach hard to get my index finger out there, and it still isn't quite in front of the muzzle.
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Permalink Reply by Blueorison on -
Haha.. wow... nutnfancy... the magic of his being he calls every color of the rainbow "tactical"?
In my hedged experience with firearms, no matter what people say outwardly about any product, REAL shooters that actually use the gear instead of storing it in their safes because other people told them it was a "cool" gun to have know which guns can do what and which ones just are a bunch of hogwash.
For example, mall ninjas will give me a 8 hr lecture on how H&K's can shoot down jets when in real life, it's just a well-built, overpriced polymer gun from a company with disdainful civilian service. But the "tactical" people don't know that. They just lug around their vests with their level IV plates. And give themselves cute little "code-names" as if they're acting in a generic Delta Force movie. Sad thing is, if you didn't watch some of Nutnfancy's videos, you'd think I was describing a bunch of 14 yr old airsofters.
You have a point, Jason, many people may not know about Arne's brainchild. However, his product will speak for itself (and perhaps already does) when it's released. Intriguingly enough, ad-plastering a new product much like Bushmaster has "blasted" it's new "tacticool" weapon sometimes leads to more adverse effects rather than concrete word-of-mouth... as in the case with the ACR.
I posit that Mr. Boberg would rather let his product speak for himself... rather than be susceptible to a bunch of nincompoops putting a bunch of silly "Specops" names for marketing (Wilson Combat, anyone?) advertise his product. But that's just MY opinion, not his. And I've been drinking too much tonight. :)
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Permalink Reply by Blueorison on
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Jason: Here's some advice. Do what works for you.
Some of the best advice I've gotten when applied specifically to firearms and competition. I shoot in alot of competitions spanning different disciplines. Grandmasters across the board can and will sometimes tell you completely different advice from person to person. Do what works best for you, and ignore the popular opinion. In this case, the popular opinion would allude to not placing your finger on the frontstrap. However, I know of a top shooter and Grandmaster that does this. When it comes down to shooting and shooting skillfully, there are so many factors and variables involves including a huge percentage of the physical being donated towards each shot that one person cannot tell you it's black and white that you can't do this or this.
As long as it's safe and you know you can shoot well with it, I say more power to you buddy :)
Jason said:I appreciate the advice, and if any instructor can show me anything other than that which I have already seen countless times regurgitated on the internet I'll consider it and give it a try. Fact remains, I have am able to control my XD45 much better when I use the guard, and my muscle memory is, well....second nature. I'm 38 and have been shooting all my life; I know what works for me. Until I get a solid, coherent explanation as to why this is a bad habit, I'll assume I'm doing the right thing, because it's the thing that allows me to put the holes closer to the mark. Peace, and thanks for the observation.
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Permalink Reply by Jason on
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Well put. As I stated before, we fully plan on waiting for the Boberg to spend some time out there and earn it's place, whatever that place may be, before spending that kind of money on it. Will I consider it over the Kahr PM9? Hell yeah. As to Nut'nfancy, I don't see your point; he's impartial (as long as the product isn't a Glock ;), gives his impressions both pro and con, and is up front concerning his degree of exposure to or experience with whatever product he reviews. Take, for instance, his reviews of Kel-Tec's products: he gives them kudos, all in all he seems to believe that for the money they adequately fit the niche the manufacturer is trying to fill. Is a Kel Tec a Glock? No. Does it fulfill HIS expectations of it, all things considered? Sure. Tactical? Meh. A prisoner's shank is tactical, friend. The term is subjective, IMHO. Nut'n, like a KelTec, fills a specific niche, and even he admits as much. Personally, I think the guy is doing great things for gun enthusiasts....and the non-enthusiasts that guys like you and I protect by virtue of being armed in their presence. I'd trust him to review the Boberg- he'll be comparing it to his beloved Glock, after all. I trust his judgment and value his opinions....as do many. Is he a "pro"? Nah....but neither am I. Neither are those folks Arne filmed shooting his neato little handgun. I'd trust their impression of that gun more than any "professional's". Just my humble opines....nice to meet you, bud. Cheers!
Blueorison said:Haha.. wow... nutnfancy... the magic of his being he calls every color of the rainbow "tactical"?
In my hedged experience with firearms, no matter what people say outwardly about any product, REAL shooters that actually use the gear instead of storing it in their safes because other people told them it was a "cool" gun to have know which guns can do what and which ones just are a bunch of hogwash.
For example, mall ninjas will give me a 8 hr lecture on how H&K's can shoot down jets when in real life, it's just a well-built, overpriced polymer gun from a company with disdainful civilian service. But the "tactical" people don't know that. They just lug around their vests with their level IV plates. And give themselves cute little "code-names" as if they're acting in a generic Delta Force movie. Sad thing is, if you didn't watch some of Nutnfancy's videos, you'd think I was describing a bunch of 14 yr old airsofters.
You have a point, Jason, many people may not know about Arne's brainchild. However, his product will speak for itself (and perhaps already does) when it's released. Intriguingly enough, ad-plastering a new product much like Bushmaster has "blasted" it's new "tacticool" weapon sometimes leads to more adverse effects rather than concrete word-of-mouth... as in the case with the ACR.
I posit that Mr. Boberg would rather let his product speak for himself... rather than be susceptible to a bunch of nincompoops putting a bunch of silly "Specops" names for marketing (Wilson Combat, anyone?) advertise his product. But that's just MY opinion, not his. And I've been drinking too much tonight. :)
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Permalink Reply by Blueorison on
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:) You're right, Jason. I was being too harsh. I actually would trust him to review the XR9 because of his honesty. I just like to kid alot on account that he uses tactical to describe everything :D
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Permalink Reply by Jason on
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His underwear are probably "tactical", hahaha......"Hey dudes, Nutn'fancy here and today I'll be doing a tabletop review entitled Hane's Tactical Trousers: Ballistic Briefs".....Hahahaha.....
Blueorison said::) You're right, Jason. I was being too harsh. I actually would trust him to review the XR9 because of his honesty. I just like to kid alot on account that he uses tactical to describe everything :D
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