The quest for sights

I just looked at the SureSIght and Speed Sights web sites. I have also looked at the hex sight.

My thoughts so far. Unfortunately without actually trying any of the sights. If there is anyone out there with these sights in the upper left of the PNW if you feel so inclined you might send me a PM.

Hex sight seems to provide the most ability to not focus on the sights but staying focused on the target. They actually claim it is easy to shoot with both eyes open. A good thing for combat. My concern for this sight is the size. I already find it very difficult to draw from my front pocket (jeans). These sights would seem to add noticeable height to the gun which would further interfere in a draw. The manufacturer is currently fitting an XR9-S, so the sight should be available for purchase in the near future.

The Speed Sights seem interesting, but it seems to me you have to have more of a focus on at least the front sight than the hex.

SureSight, I think, would be my pick of the three. I has the Tritium option (as does SpeedSight), and just my gut feeling is that it allows focusing on the target similar to the hex. Maybe.

It would be real handy if some of the sight makers made some paper stickies of the front and rear sights so someone could try them out on their own gun. Virtually no cost to manufacturer. I talked to the Hex sight guy about something like that (folded out of cardboard), but his sight is not amenable to that sort of approach.

I am just posting this to stimulate some thinking on possible sight systems that we would like on the guns.

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Permalink Reply by bbrkc on January 12, 2012 at 5:29pm

A more accurate way to point shoot is a good priority for CPL's . That's why the hex sight is intriguing but, why can't it be round, smaller/thinner, spring loaded and glow in the dark banded? Just wondering.

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Permalink Reply by alternety on January 13, 2012 at 2:01am

I believe the hex shape is a vital component of the optical performance. And they do have Tritium.

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Permalink Reply by Ed on January 16, 2012 at 12:41am

I have heard good things about using XS Sight Systems "Standard Dot 24/7 Express" Tritium sights:

http://www.xssights.com/

The manufacturer also sells "Big Dot 24/7 Express" sights, but I have heard that the front sight can be "too big" to be useful for accuracy.

I also checked the Sure Sight Web site. It looks like an interesting product, but there is a notice that they are 6-12 weeks back ordered, but will charge your credit card today if you make the BIG mistake of ordering now. You only have a short period to protest a bad credit card charge by a vendor, which will expire before the 12 weeks are up.

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xdtalk-sponsor-announcements-showcase/...

Skipping forward to the last two pages of the blog, it appears that Sure Sight was out of operation by November 2009, and owner Sure Sight owner Chaim Stein had sent refund checks to some of the posters following BBB complaints.

Other blogs had a similar story:

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1245385

http://www.steyrclub.com/vb/threads/5386-SureSight-versus-Trap-sigh...

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-577440.html

http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=492982

http://www.xd-hs2000.com/xd-hs2000/SureSight.html

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=429650

What a waste, as there are independent reviews out there where users loved the product:

http://www.m4040.com/ShootingSports/RapidSightsEval.htm

http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-NROI-ruling-details.php?indx=32

http://tacticaltim.com/downloads/Glock-21.pdf

BTW "Tactical Tim" did not like the inability of most to hold a Glock 21 in .45 ACP with the double stack magazine, but he liked the yellow SureSight triangular sights.

A 2006 thread has Chaim Stein refuting comparisons to the Steyr sighting system and noting that TRUGLO once sold the product:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229068

I also found a firearms review article by Chaim Stein that had been "lost", also giving the TRUGLO connection:

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/general-sa-xd-xd-m-talk/184369-xd-tort...

http://www.la.bbb.org/business-reviews/Guns-and-Gunsmith-Shops/Sure...

It appears that the Sure Sight Web sight is registered through August 2012, still capturing mailing list addresses and credit card data.

So, it looks like there is an opportunity out there for getting this product back to market, and perhaps someone is taking advantage of it, or is themselves getting taken. See the 30-January-2010, 13:24 posting:

http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?t=92234

As they say, hope springs eternal...

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Permalink Reply by alternety on January 16, 2012 at 2:09am

Thanks. That would have been annoying.

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Permalink Reply by Ed on January 16, 2012 at 4:27pm

I first learned to shoot with plain black sights. The front sight post was to be equidistant between the two rear sight posts, and all three posts kept at the same level. That is fine for a well lit or outdoor range, but may be undesirable for other conditions.

A good discussion of issues with various handgun sighting systems:

http://www.ppisafety.com/sighting_methods.html

The standard three-dot night sight system takes advantage of the sight picture many of us learned with all black sights, aligning the front sight post equidistant between the upright posts of the rear sight, keeping the height of all three post sights level. In bright light, the eye uses the contrast between the white dot and the black post for rough sighting and then you can use the black posts for fine sighting. In low light, the luminous three dots alone are used, as you cannot see the black posts. If there are no Tritium inserts or the Tritium no longer glows in the white dots, there still may be enough light to determine the alignment of the white dots.

Other sight configurations use a white dot alone in the front sight or also add a “U” shaped white outline on the rear sight. Some SIG pistols have what is known as “von Stavenhagen” sights, where there is white dot on the front sight and a white vertical bar on the center of the rear sight. SIG calls these “contrast” sights, while others prefer to call them “lollipop”, “meatball on the stick” or pumpkin on the post” sights. When I first purchased a used SIG P228 with the “von Stavenhagen” sights, I planned to change the sights to a three-dot night sight, but never did. For low light crises, I installed a guide rod laser to get that crucial first shot, but found out that subsequent shots using the laser were less useful because the burnt powder obscured the laser lens. For normal light, I actually preferred the standard “von Stavenhagen” sights, as sight alignment was quicker for me and my now middle aged eyes. I had been trained to raise a pistol while sifting the point of focus from the rear sight to the front sight, not to lower the pistol from pointing at the sky, or the ceiling. The trick for me was picturing a sunrise on a calm ocean as the pistol was raised. Once the sun had risen completely, with the bottom of the sun level with the horizon, squeeze the trigger. Instinctively, the front sight is aligned over the middle of the rear sight as the “sun” rises because you want to make sure that the sun is aligned with its’ reflection in the water. You could also visualize a setting sun meeting the horizon at sunset for the same effect if the pistol is originally pointed upward.

For those who prefer video, Nutnfancy did a great review of the SIG P228. You can see both the von Stavenhagen sights on his P228 and the three-dot night sights on a SIG P226 at about 23 minutes into the video. He also comments on what he considers desirable features of a carry weapon at around 29 minutes into the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTAPvoc0Mtc

I would love to see Nutnfancy review the XR9-S sometime.

Massad Ayoob discussed the von Stavenhagen sights, XS Sights (Big Dot and not-so-big Standard Dot) and Heinie Straight Eight sights in his book “Gun Digest Book of Sig-Sauer: A Complete Look at Sig Sauer Pistols”:

http://books.google.com/books?id=ilOWf1cpDBoC&pg=PA195&lpg=...

The XS Sight Standard Dot sight appears to me to be a good night sight adaptation of the von Stavenhagen sight system. The Big Dot may be good at close range, but the Standard Dot appears better at “close but not too close” range.