Increased capacity for extra magazine

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Permalink Reply by Arne Boberg on February 18, 2012 at 1:48pm

An extended floorplate would not affect the function at all.  However, the mold for this part would be about $15K - we just don't have the resources to do it right now.  As far as a Micro pistol - since we would have to spend $35K on the grip molds anyway, why make another 9mm pistol that is only .3" shorter in the grip?  My thinking is that I might as well make the Micro a .45 caliber.  I have considered the .40, but making the smallest (ever) .45 auto I think would be a good seller.

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Permalink Reply by Christopher Jerold Rogers on April 29, 2012 at 8:16am

It seems to me that the OP mentioned a discusión he saw on the extended floor plate but what he is really looking for is a larger mag capacity via a larger magazine, utilizing a longer magazine tube and spring. I also would greatly appreciate a larger mag to carry as a spare reload. I amthinking along the lines of the OP and would love to see the micro go my pocket for the best fit and concealability with a larger mag (10 rounds) as the spare.

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Permalink Reply by Thomas on April 29, 2012 at 1:48pm

Arne,

IMHO, I think the .45 makes more sense than the .40.   While the .40 is a great cartridge, from hanging out on other boards I see that it's not as widely popular or accepted as the .45 is.  I think I saw somewhere where you were thinking of .45 GAP, I'd rather see it in ACP if possible due to availability and price of ammo.  I think you'll have a winner on your hands whichever you go with.

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Permalink Reply by VMole8 on April 29, 2012 at 8:13pm

Thinness is a challenge for the rotary lockup.  Being that the pistol's advantages are maximized relative to its weaknesses in a pocketable size, I really think the Micro 9 is still the way to go for folks who find the current height less than ideal for their pocket.  If .45 makes it awkwardly thick for a pocket due to the locking lugs, combined with a minimal mag capacity between the fatter round and the shorter grip, you're likely to have an even more niche gun that will appeal to very few people.  The shortness will be wasted if it becomes even thicker, as it's already pushing the envelope for a pocket gun on average sized folks with average style pants.  I found the Nano's thickness in a front pocket without a holster in Wrangler cargo pants to be rather print-prone and it's thinner than the current XR9-S.   People might as well carry the .45 IWB and keep an extra round at the current height, and with a longer barrel for that matter.

Frankly, I think a 4 inch barrel with matching slide would be awesome for IWB, appendix and hip carry if you go to a .45.  Definitely need extended mags for reloads though, say an extra 2 rounds with minimal added thickness to the grip extension for comfort and concealment in a pocket or pouch.  I'd frankly just prefer a longer mag tube rather than an extended baseplate to minimize opportunities for levered stress on the attachment lips and you could just add a little frontstrap that sticks up from the baseplate for a flush pinky rest without adding full wraparound material.  

Even without the pinky rest baseplate, would it be a cheaper process addition to make a longer mag tube and spring for the current pistol using the existing baseplate?

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Permalink Reply by Arne Boberg on April 29, 2012 at 8:35pm

Good point - the look of extending the stainless magazine tube can be simulated by merely drawing the magazine out a little bit.  The tooling cost to make the magazine tube longer would be a lot less than making a taller magazine floorplate.

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Permalink Reply by BretShooter on April 29, 2012 at 10:35pm

How difficult would a sleeve/butt plate for that extended mag body to be machined out of a solid plastic, say Delrin or HMWPE? 

I would settle for a standard pad.  If I can shoot with two grip fingers, having a less than smooth place to hang my pinky on is nothing to worry about.

Does the mag need to physical insertion limiting surface (like the current butt plate) to prevent over insertion induced bent feed lips?

Arne Boberg said:

Good point - the look of extending the stainless magazine tube can be simulated by merely drawing the magazine out a little bit.  The tooling cost to make the magazine tube longer would be a lot less than making a taller magazine floorplate.

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Permalink Reply by Christopher Jerold Rogers on April 30, 2012 at 5:29pm

Arne Boberg said:

Good point - the look of extending the stainless magazine tube can be simulated by merely drawing the magazine out a little bit.  The tooling cost to make the magazine tube longer would be a lot less than making a taller magazine floorplate.

I would also think that a longer magazine tube would be much more sturdy, reliable and tough than a taller floor plate. I say go for a 10 rounder : )

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Permalink Reply by Arne Boberg on April 30, 2012 at 6:46pm

I really like your sleeve idea - even if it were molded, the tooling cost would be very low compared to the current tool for the floorplate.

BretShooter said:

How difficult would a sleeve/butt plate for that extended mag body to be machined out of a solid plastic, say Delrin or HMWPE? 

I would settle for a standard pad.  If I can shoot with two grip fingers, having a less than smooth place to hang my pinky on is nothing to worry about.

Does the mag need to physical insertion limiting surface (like the current butt plate) to prevent over insertion induced bent feed lips?

Arne Boberg said:

Good point - the look of extending the stainless magazine tube can be simulated by merely drawing the magazine out a little bit.  The tooling cost to make the magazine tube longer would be a lot less than making a taller magazine floorplate.

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Permalink Reply by alternety on April 30, 2012 at 7:16pm

I third, or fourth, or whatever the idea of a longer spare mag. Just a plain extension of some easy to make material would be just fine without a new molded base plate. Black version of whatever material you use it for it would be preferable.

I do differ in my view of how big the mag should be. I would consider a backup mag length the same as the slide length of the gun to be very acceptable. Here is the thinking.  It is only a "reload" mag. It will normally just sit in either a spare mag partition in the holster, or a separate carrier similar to the holster. I have both a one and two mag separate carriers. Thus the length of the mag would be stored parallel to the pistol slide and would cause minimal problems in an extension pocket or a separate mag holder. If you can handle carrying the length of the shorty; a backup mag of the same length should not be a problem. If you extend from a normal base plate, the mag holster people will have to do a bit of creative thinking, but overall I think it would work. I would think it would be fine to make the new mag a straight extension without a floor plate. I suspect that filling out the forward edge of the extension (just a thickening of the material)  so it is generally flush with the front edge of the grip would be a good approach. You then have lots of finger gripping/resting area and probably don't need the curved floor plate to ease the gripping. And if the spring function can be further extended, you could make a really big mag for home defense situations. Or for those that always carry a pack for extra ammo and other accouterments.

Would be really cool if you could run a double stack once you get outside the frame. Likewise a shorty with double stack would be interesting. I am thinking that the extra thickness is not such a problematic thing. But the things above are much cheaper to implement.

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Permalink Reply by BretShooter on April 30, 2012 at 7:46pm

Since you pointed it out, I agree with you.  I would be happy with a straight stick mag the length of the slide, and a steel floor plate of minimal dimensions.  Simple, functional, inexpensive to get into production.

And if you need an insertion limiter to prevent feed lip damage, weld something on the front that would also transition from frame edge to mag more smoothly.

alternety said:

I third, or fourth, or whatever the idea of a longer spare mag.

I do differ in my view of how big the mag should be. I would consider a backup mag length the same as the slide length of the gun to be very acceptable. Here is the thinking.  It is only a "reload" mag. It will normally just sit in either a spare mag partition in the holster, or a separate carrier similar to the holster. I have both a one and two mag separate carriers. Thus the length of the mag would be stored parallel to the pistol slide and would cause minimal problems in an extension pocket or a separate mag holder. If you can handle carrying the length of the shorty; a backup mag of the same length should not be a problem.

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Permalink Reply by Forum Admin on April 30, 2012 at 9:44pm

Arne, this is probably a non-optimal solution:

Could the extension simply be a plastic/delrin/zytel/etc. "clip on" to your existing single stack mag that acts as a combined grip AND magazine extension that feeds rounds into stock mag, with your existing baseplate locking onto the bottom of the extension?  Maybe even find a way to incorporate doublestack capability in the extension like alternety suggests?

That way you wouldn't have to (1) contract for longer metal single stack mags, (2) create a separate plastic grip sleeve around an extended metal mag, or (3) create a new baseplate.

The main issue I can think of right away would be the strength of the attachment point between plastic extension and metal mag - that seems like a likely stress/break point.

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Permalink Reply by Brokedoc on April 30, 2012 at 9:58pm

I don't see how a mag can be single stack in the grip and then widen to a doublestack extension.  Even if there were some sort of engineering marvel that could do this, it seems to me to be impossible to do any doublestack with the Bobergs because there isn't even a follower to direct the rounds into the proper position.

 

An extension tube to attach between the bottom of a standard mag and a baseplate sounds easy enough but longer springs would also be needed.

 

To alleviate stress on the joint, we might consider a metal extension tube perhaps coated black the same way as the black slides are currently.  Clip the black extension tube to the bottom of the mag, drop in the longer spring, reattach the standard base plate....

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